When i started studying in STEM, first lecture in first semester, the professor greeted us not with hello but with: if you don't do a phd, you'll be unemployed. Fast forward, the only unemployed people i see now are the ones who stayed in academia for phd and beyond... it's always how the system is incentivized - and never what the person truly wants to be doing or what career works for them.
Yeah it’s really unfortunate to hear that, and I’ve heard many similar stories. We are told this lie that we absolutely have to have a PhD if we want a career in science, but it’s not the case. For many people it can just make you unemployable for most positions, and then you’ll struggle to land the roles that actually require the PhD too. Students deserve better.
Terminal postdocs were a creeping norm even when I was an undergrad. I worked with a PhD who left science after working in a mega lab with 5-10 postdocs. She said the lab published multiple times per year and some of the postdocs weren’t listed as authors. Friends of mine have been denied tenure and been unable to secure employment elsewhere, even with the advertised shortage.
Something worth naming for the researchers here coming from Social Sciences or Humaniti es: the doctorate as professional completion looks very different from the doctorate as career entry point.
One is a funnel. The other is something more like a long, slow deepening of work you were already doing. The pressures are different and so is the measure of success.
It's great that you are holding space for these important themes Christos, the more information that's out there, the better equipped researchers (or those considering a research career) are to make informed choices.
Thank you, I really appreciate it and I agree! I think it's really important to have these conversations and put this information out there so the next generation or even current researchers can have this knowledge and decide what's right for them.
Its true how precarious academia is. I had one bad postdoc position where there was just no work for me, and I didn't publish. Then “publish or perish” claimed me and I became toxic to employ. It was so awkward in interviews when PIs were asking me why I had the big gap in publishing, and I couldn't slag off my current PI because they all know each other! I'm out.
That’s a great example of how challenging it can be to build a career in academia! You are so dependent on your lab and PI, and if you get unlucky with one bad stint then it’s really hard to continue down the path. You have to have this unbroken streak of constant publishing and impressive results to have a tiny chance of one day becoming a professor. It’s really hard to have the motivation to keep going down that path with all of those difficulties.
When i started studying in STEM, first lecture in first semester, the professor greeted us not with hello but with: if you don't do a phd, you'll be unemployed. Fast forward, the only unemployed people i see now are the ones who stayed in academia for phd and beyond... it's always how the system is incentivized - and never what the person truly wants to be doing or what career works for them.
Yeah it’s really unfortunate to hear that, and I’ve heard many similar stories. We are told this lie that we absolutely have to have a PhD if we want a career in science, but it’s not the case. For many people it can just make you unemployable for most positions, and then you’ll struggle to land the roles that actually require the PhD too. Students deserve better.
Terminal postdocs were a creeping norm even when I was an undergrad. I worked with a PhD who left science after working in a mega lab with 5-10 postdocs. She said the lab published multiple times per year and some of the postdocs weren’t listed as authors. Friends of mine have been denied tenure and been unable to secure employment elsewhere, even with the advertised shortage.
That’s crazy, it’s really an unfortunate and exploitative practice. Academia really needs an overhaul!
Something worth naming for the researchers here coming from Social Sciences or Humaniti es: the doctorate as professional completion looks very different from the doctorate as career entry point.
One is a funnel. The other is something more like a long, slow deepening of work you were already doing. The pressures are different and so is the measure of success.
Thanks for adding this perspective, I come from the STEM side of things and know the experience can be completely different between fields.
It's great that you are holding space for these important themes Christos, the more information that's out there, the better equipped researchers (or those considering a research career) are to make informed choices.
Thank you, I really appreciate it and I agree! I think it's really important to have these conversations and put this information out there so the next generation or even current researchers can have this knowledge and decide what's right for them.
Its true how precarious academia is. I had one bad postdoc position where there was just no work for me, and I didn't publish. Then “publish or perish” claimed me and I became toxic to employ. It was so awkward in interviews when PIs were asking me why I had the big gap in publishing, and I couldn't slag off my current PI because they all know each other! I'm out.
That’s a great example of how challenging it can be to build a career in academia! You are so dependent on your lab and PI, and if you get unlucky with one bad stint then it’s really hard to continue down the path. You have to have this unbroken streak of constant publishing and impressive results to have a tiny chance of one day becoming a professor. It’s really hard to have the motivation to keep going down that path with all of those difficulties.
Thank you so much! And I agree, it’s easy to fall into the endless postdoc cycle and it can be difficult to get out once you’re there.